Rumor Central de Rumores Xbox: "Eu aumento, mas não invento"

Jogos exclusivos serão multiplataforma, o que você vai fazer?


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ronabs

opa
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Novembro 8, 2010
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Rio Grande do Sul
Lembrando que esse discurso nem é um discurso feito num contexto de E3, mas sim num contexto de cancelamentos.

Uma coisa que pode ter mudado é a maneira como ocorre o comprometimento com os projetos, a forma de definir as premissas iniciais que devem ser atendidas. Com base em lições aprendidas e também em expertise de novos colaboradores.

Uma vez definido um conceito, abraçar o projeto até que esse conceito seja atingido. Eu particularmente gostaria que a meta de prazo não ficasse acima da meta de atingir a visão inicial do projeto. Eu acho que eles podem estar fazendo isso com Crackdown 3, o que não quer dizer que será um bom jogo, mas talvez ele já tenha saído do esquema "lança o que for possível lançar nessa janela" que parece que foi o que aconteceu com alguns títulos. Falando parece fácil, mas isso exige um comprometimento da empresa MUITO grande, devido aos riscos. E esse tipo de comprometimento só comecei a sentir da MS no segundo semestre do ano passado. Você precisa ter bem claras as métricas de sucesso que se aplicam a esse tipo de produto, e nem sempre as vendas no retail serão a melhor métrica, principalmente no cenário de forte presença de serviços e ganhos indiretos.

Então minha aposta pra coisas realmente grandes da MS são para daqui 1 ano pra frente. Mas podemos ter notícias legais esse ano.
Vou deixar alguns comentários do Era, o segundo e terceiro são diretamente relacionados, e tem bastante disso que tu falou sobre como os jogos são aprovados e o que dá pra se esperar no futuro próximo/E3.

Dusk Golem
I can't comment too deeply on this, but Microsoft Game Studios had some HUGE internal changes within the last year. Essentially for a while the people who made all the biggest choices were part of Microsoft and not Microsoft Game Studios, buisness people without much in-depth knowledge on the industry, but now people leading MGS finally got more power within the company to make more decisions for themselves and have been working hard to make some big changes going forward.

I fully suspect this hire (Darrell Gallagher) is related to some things they're up to.
DocSeuss - discordo um pouco só na parte que a Sony só faz o mesmo tipo de jogo: olhando por cima, eles parecem iguais, mas o que faz eles se diferenciarem é que cada um funciona de uma maneira diferente. Sei que é meio difícil de explicar, mas jogando, é mais ou menos isso que se sente.
Okay so maybe I should clarify a bit: Microsoft tends to pick up something that looks unique and goes "okay, let's do it." The more unique, the more interested they seem to be. When Halo: Combat Evolve first showed up, it was this whole new thing. The game looked fucking weird. When Fable was developed, it was done in part because of how weird Bullfrog/Lionhead's work had been previously. Gears of War was pushing cover shooting when only a few games had tried and failed to do that before. Microsoft really likes greenlighting risks. But if those risks pay off, then of course they're going to keep making games in that vein. Most of the $60 retail games they release are these really unique games that push the "we do some THING that no one else is pushing" angle. I'm not saying that's the right angle to take, that's just a characteristic of them as a publisher.

Sony's a lot like that as well, in that they find something that works and then push that a lot. The main difference here is that Sony finds something that works and makes more things like it. Microsoft tries to differentiate all their products. So Sony goes 'wow, third person cinematic action games are a big deal. Alright, God of War Ascension didn't do too well, what if we bring the camera in and make God of War more like Uncharted?' Basically all their big hitters right now--Uncharted, The Last of Us, God of War, etc--are following a similar formula. And they're looking to expand that into open world because Ubisoft has found so much success in that, hence Horizon: Zero Dawn (Guerilla wasn't doing too well with Killzone; Sony was more willing to support a pivot). Sony's trying to follow that success up with Ghost of Tsushima and Days Gone. A lot of what Sony's doing for those big, $60 retail titles is action adventure-infused stuff.

If Microsoft were like Sony, what we'd see is more attempts at first and third person shooters; Microsoft would try to take that critical acclaim and try to grow that into a strength. Instead they're like "wait what if we make Sea of Thieves?" or "how about a story-less co-op action game?" or whatever. While it's clear that GaaS is a big priority for them, they're still chasing really unique hooks.

Identifying publisher characteristics seems like a really non-controversial thing to me. Like, look at Ubisoft. If I said "Ubisoft doesn't really make linear games, they spend almost all their time on open world games," that's not really controversial. I don't think "microsoft tries to be experimental with every game they make" and "sony tends to stick with what works" is that controversial of a claim to make. These are characteristics of both publishers, and I think Sony's model works better for them.

By all means, please, tell me why you think this is wrong. The "you're crazy" or "you must be trolling" stuff isn't interesting. Like, I'd appreciate it if someone tried to tear my argument apart, and I appreciate that you tried, but I take exception with your examples.

First off, nearly all of the games you mention are not $60 games. My examples, if I'm not mistaken, have all been $60 retail games.

Second, a bunch of those games are Vita titles or digitally downloadable games.

This isn't as risky as Viva Pinata, a $60 retail game, or Quantum Break, a $60 retail game. You get that, right? Pyre isn't even a Sony game. Everybody's Gone to the Rapture was Sony trying to cash in on the Gone Home fad. One big thing for Sony is how much emphasis they put on prestige titles, which is why games like Shadow of the Colossus get funded, but you also have to remember, things were a lot more exciting in the 6th gen. Sony was a much more risky publisher; they could afford to be. People were still figuring out how to make interesting 3D games. It was the 7th gen where they started to get a lot more conservative with what they funded.

What baffles me is why you've got Horizon: Zero Dawn, which is one of the safest games anyone could ever pitch to a publisher (open world action/adventure RPG), or Bloodborne, which is also one of the safest games you could pitch to a publisher (wow, Dark Souls is HUGE right now! We should make Dark Souls too!). Of course digitally downloadable titles are unique. Go check out all the old XBLA games; they were just as unique as anything you've listed here. Digital games are a bit more experimental.

So yeah, tl;dr, most of your $60 games are safe bets, and the rest of the games you listed are digital, which have a much wider margin for error.

The Xbox is constantly trying to be ~unique~ with its big $60 games. Everything Microsoft does is somehow trying to be ~unique~ in some way. Sony's following a different formula, and it's a big part of the reason they're doing so well this gen. I don't think identifying Sony as a relatively conservative publisher and Microsoft as one that takes way too many risks is in any way controversial to claim.
Thomas Mahler - pra alguém tão próximo da Microsoft, o cara é surpreendentemente bem aberto nas opiniões dele.
I think there’s actually quite a bit of truth to what DocSeuss is saying, so I don’t understand all the cynicism here.

Microsofts process of greenlighting games is pretty straight forward: You pitch a game to their group of people and you’ve got people like Ken Lobb in that group. If you pitch something as: “We want to make a thing that’s just like that other game on the market!”, you will run against a wall with them. Ken would argue and argue that the idea is not unique enoguh - so, similar to Nintendo, that line of thinking is the last thing they wanna hear.

Now, does that apply to all their IPs? No, of course not, I’m also cynical about games like Halo, Gears and Forza at this point, but then again, these games have a huge fanbase and that fanbase often just wants more of the same. As long as that results in quality games like it did with Forza Horizon 3, do we really care that much? On Halo and Gears, I’m pretty sure they understand that these franchises ran out of juice a bit and just repeating the same thing again and again might not be what gamers want anymore at this point, so let’s look at what they have up their sleeves for Halo and Gears.

And I do think Microsoft is taking some risk all the time, just like Sony is. I mean, We approached Microsoft back then by making the argument that nobody is making HD Metroidvanias at this point even though games like Super Metroid or Symphony of the Night used to be critical darlings - And that was at a time when it was unthinkable that Konami or any other publisher would greenlight an HD Metroidvania packed full with high res 2d Handpainted Art at this point. Again, that was at a time when nobody seemed to take risks anymore, when every major AAA game needed a shoehorned multiplayer component and DLC added on top.

So we showed them our prototype of Ori, which was basically a HD Metroidvania with a bigger story focus and all of that done tastefully and they greenlit it. They couldn’t have known at the time that it would go on to become a big hit - They just took the gamble and for that I commend them. And now with Will of the Wisps, they allowed us to perfect that formula and really go all out on it even though Ori will probably never end up making ‘Halo money’. Now, obviously, Ori also doesn’t have a budget anywhere close to Halo, so it’s a smaller risk, but a risk nonetheless.

And if we wanna be cynical, I do kinda agree that Sony is starting to turn all their games into variations of Uncharted. I’m as excited about God of War as anybody else here, but it’s pretty clear that Sony Santa Monica took a good look at Uncharted when developing that game. Is that a bad thing necessarily? Nope, and it seemed to all have worked out. But is making another God of War that’s much closer to their other big hit that much of a risk? I don’t think so.

I’m personally not a fan of Rare’s output these days anymore and I think Sea of Thieves isn’t really a great game, but you definitey have to appreciate that Microsoft greenlit it anyway. It’s weird as fuck and totally goes against what seems to ‘work’ these days and they’ve been beaten up for trying to make something new and not quite hitting the landing, but hey, at least there was room for some innovation there.

I think the big thing you could definitely argue for is that Microsoft ‘forgot’ about backing talent in a big way for a while. They focused on making their hardware teams better (I think that’s pretty obvious looking at the original X1 and the new X1X), they focused on Xbox Live and GamePass and how all that will work in the future and they missed the boat on signing up talented devs for a while. So I’m guessing they signed bigger deals 2-3 years ago and now it just takes time until we see them reap the benefits from that. Sure, the proof is in the pudding, but again, what Doc is saying isn’t all wrong either.
 
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Heimdall dos Pampas
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Abril 11, 2007
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eu gostei de Ryse. Uma continuaçao honesta pra ele seria muito bem vinda mesmo.
mas teria que vir novamente como a coisa visualmente mais linda do ano.

Cry Engine perdeu muito espaço no mercado (ou não ganhou espaço).
Pelo menos ela tinha algum nome, mesmo sem predominar. Acho que a soberba matou eles.

Eu gostei do Ryse, mas o encanto visual realmente pesou muito na minha avaliação. Se uma outra equipe assumisse a produção de um Ryse 2, eu ficaria mais otimista.
 

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Heimdall dos Pampas
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Abril 11, 2007
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@Schwarzz sobre isso que o Ronabs trouxe hoje (do ResetEra):

"Essentially for a while the people who made all the biggest choices were part of Microsoft and not Microsoft Game Studios, business people without much in-depth knowledge on the industry, but now people leading MGS finally got more power within the company "

Aquela coisa de "ah, não, orçamento de 50 milhões de dólares não sou eu que aprovo, tem que falar com aquele cara abaixo do Ballmer que também cuida dos celulares". Não adianta ter tempo no mercado (lembra aquela comparação com a idade da divisão Playstation?) se a sua estrutura organizacional não é compatível com a realidade do negócio. Se a divisão de videogames fosse o principal ganha pão da empresa, como acontece com outras no mercado, então o CEO trata de outra forma. Se é uma divisão que precisa se justificar todo ano para determinados setores da empresa, então o processo fica mais truncado.
Mas esse respeito interno pela divisão Xbox só chegou agora na MS, depois de um processo de mudança cultural reconhecido iniciado pelo atual CEO. Agora o cara abaixo do CEO é o próprio responsável pela divisão Xbox, e ao menos quem trabalhou em grandes corporações entende o quanto isso muda as coisas. Mas ainda, uma coisa é estar abaixo do Ballmer, naquela estrutura pew-pew pra todo lado; outro cenário é o de agora.

Quando entregaram o X e o pessoal elogiou em peso o novo console mas reclamou do volume de conteúdo próprio da MS, tenho certeza que isso ajudou o Spencer a conseguir apoio para fazer os movimentos ousados que os fãs esperam.
 

kaizen

Suspenso
Julho 9, 2016
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Que isso seja verdade.
 
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Reações: xandynhoz e Creis92

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